First and foremost: We’re finding that travel by motorhome is a wonderful way to see the world. It allows one to immerse in the world far more than other kinds of travel, especially when ‘wild-camping’ out in it; it permits travelling at one’s own pace, with the ability to take a day or two, or a month, off with great ease; and, it’s much cheaper than the alternatives, once you accept that large initial investment!General thoughts:

• Finding wild-camps is, contrary to expectations, often fun and easy: We just pick a random side road, drive down it and see where it takes us. More often than not, we’ve done very well.
• Things that together are a recipe for happiness: A full tank of fuel, water and LPG, empty grey and black water tanks, full leisure battery and full fridge. Freedom baby!
• Hearing rain on the roof is a wonderful, cosy thing, until you realise you have a leak.
• This lifestyle seems to have a tendency to reinforce gender roles. I seem to be spending a lot of time doing stuff with hoses, climbing on the roof, twiddling taps and knobs, connecting cables and Driving The Truck. I’m considering getting some tatts.
• Emptying black water tanks is, apparently, a man’s job. Damn.
• Visits to toilets other than one’s own are to be highly valued: Plumbing, privacy and no need to deal with anything later! Answering nature’s call in a motorhome tends to be an uncomfortably involved conversation.
• Filling up LPG for the first time is scary.
• Filling up LPG at a petrol station on the street that is the Loyalist paramilitary crime syndicate stronghold in Belfast is extra-scary (in retrospect).
• Neighbours are great — when wildcamping, it’s good to see another motorhome or two already in place: Safety in numbers. It’s particularly good to see neighbours more swank than us. Guess who’ll be the first target for evildoers!
• We have developed a new respect for women in developing countries who have to do the laundry by hand. That sh#t is hard!
• Socks can be worn about half a dozen times before they start to smell, in the right conditions.
• Water lasts us two days, probably three if we are seriously frugal. The leisure battery runs our laptops for about five or six hours before the inverter starts complaining. LPG has lasted about three weeks. The black water cassette needs emptying about once every week or so if we use it a fair bit, less if not. I prefer not. So, our grand schemes to wildcamp for days upon days need minor modifications.

Driving:

• Passing trucks going the other way on narrow roads has a tendency to lead one towards religion.
• After almost crossing a “weak bridge” with a 3 tonne limit (we are 3.5), one tends to look very carefully for such signs in the future.
• Driving behind a slow truck becomes a positive thing in a motorhome – now someone else is responsible for holding up traffic.
• After scoffing at motorhomers’ reviews of various regions which include a discussion of road quality (how petty!), it turns out road quality is actually fairly influential on one’s state of mind. A kitchen full of crockery rattling deafeningly and incessantly behind you can get a little old.

Water:

• Keeping drinking water in the water tank is a much, much better idea than putting any old water in there and keeping drinking water separately. Before we cleaned out our tank for the first time, it was an enormous pain to use separate drinking water.
• The water tank can be easily sterilised with Miltons tablets, used for cleaning baby bottles, and available for pennies in the baby section in pharmacies. Fill ‘er up, put in the tablets, then drive to swish it around. Repeat once, then rinse the tank out a few times afterwards, and be prepared to have terrible-tasting water for four or five refills. A Brita water filter is a very useful purchase.
• Water at service stations, at least in the UK and Ireland, is perfectly drinkable, both from the water/air service point and from actual taps. This is a very handy thing!
• Taps and hoses: I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about this. See if you can tell: There are several different tap nozzle types around, and if your hose doesn’t work with it, then you’re reduced to moving on or using a bucket (which sucks, unless you can convince your partner to do it). I bought a hose end with the standard clip-over-the-nozzle affair, with a separate adapter for the two different threaded tap sizes. Different length hoses can be handy too: It’s a pain to deal with a really long hose when you’re right beside a tap. I bought a long hose and cut it into one short and one long length, and bought a hose connector to reunite them when needed. You can get flat-folding hoses, and hoses on reels, but we couldn’t find the former (and they’re very expensive), and didn’t want the bulkiness of the latter.

Energy:

• Our leisure battery on a full change doesn’t go very far when we’re using our laptops. Maybe 5, 6 hours.
• It takes quite a few hours of driving to recharge the battery.
• A generator would be a good solution, but to get a quiet one, which we’d need, costs many hundreds of pounds. A solar panel, which does much less well than a generator (really just makes the battery drain a bit slower) is about the same amount. Tricky.
• Conventional, non-slow-travel, really burns through money. Better to slow down.
• Our LPG conversion for our domestic gas has been great – very easy to fill up, and LPG stations are relatively easy to come by. Seriously cheap.

Waste stuff:

• It seems to be more or less acceptable to empty the black water tank at service station bathrooms, although I draw the line at doing so when the bathrooms are only accessible through the shop. Just be clean!
• Speaking of black water tanks: Don’t hold the air-intake button down too far while emptying, or prepare to take a big step back. Yuck.

So, here’s the info:

It’s a Fiat Hymer B594, ‘A’ Class Fiat Ducato 2.5 Turbo diesel, manual 5 speed, left hand drive. It’s about 3m high, about 6.36m long, about 2.17m wide and weighs 3.5 tons gross (the maximum we can drive on our licences!). It apparently will get us 30 miles per gallon, which Google tells me is 10.62 km per litre. My very rough calculations tell me we should get 100km for about £9.60 currently, with diesel around 102p/litre. Or something.

It’s got a seriously spacious interior, which is helped by a swivelling passenger seat which becomes an ‘armchair’ and expands the living space; a central ‘dinette’ which could seat four, and a rear dinette for two. Both turn into beds for guests if we really wanted to — one double, one single. It’s perfect for us, because we want two workspaces — one for my ‘office’, and one for Katherine’s art stuff. Our bed pulls down over the cab easily, pushes up completely out of the way when we’re not using it, and is well sized for both of us. Absolutely brilliant. What’s more, it has a panoramic view out of the top of the windscreen, which we can leave un-curtained if we wish for a nice view in the morning, if there is one, and not too many people outside to introduce to our bedroom. We have a little ladder to get us up there, and the mattress is quite comfortable. The kitchen sits opposite the ‘living room’, with 3 gas burners, a 3 way fridge a sink with hot and cold running water.

The bathroom has a cassette toilet, with an access hatch on the outside for emptying (a joyous task yet to be performed, and one that I have no doubts that I will inherit!) and a basin with a tap that can be pulled out of its dock and used as a shower nozzle, either held or inserted into a flexible fitting in the roof. There’s a drain in the floor, and a shower curtain that can wrap all the way around (we leave an opening facing the sink), and showers in it are quite comfortable. Hot water is provided by a gas boiler that also provides central heating — flick a switch on a control panel, and hot water is ready to be used 5-10 minutes later. Very clever. 100 litre fresh water tank (which we’ve just finished cleaning out with Milton tablets, and are one or two rinses away from storing drinking water in), and a 100 litre grey water tank.

Lots of places for storage, heaps of room under the seats for big things like buckets, hoses and foldable chairs. There’s even a box on top of the roof, which we figured out was perfect for storing the extra bit of the double bed in the ‘living room’. A wardrobe with space to hang clothes and have a few things on the bottom. Double-glazed windows can be opened outwards and have blinds which shut out light well, and fly-wire, both of which cleverly slide out of sight when not being used. Very pleasant small lights located around the van, with individual switches give it a really homely feel at night.

We got a 300 watt full sine wave inverter put in, as well as a big leisure battery. With both of us using our laptops for much of the day, we’re yet to see the battery go down very much. A good sign, although we won’t really know how long we can last while ‘wild-camping’ until we try it for a good deal of time. A nice big safe fits both laptops easily (even my 17″ MBP!), with room to spare for things like cameras, etc. Security locks on all doors to make us feel a bit better. Our f$#^@* insurance doesn’t cover contents at all, so we’re reduced to crossing fingers for now, and it’s at least a comfort to have some security. I lock everything in the safe at night, while we’re driving, and of course while we’re out, and put obvious signs that we have laptops in there too, like the chargers.

Anyway, the thing’s quite fun to drive, now we’ve gotten over initial nerves, and I’ve more-or-less figured out how to stay in my lane. The gears are on the right hand side on a stick coming from the steering column, and they’ve very easy to use. The engine is seriously beefy, and while the thing doesn’t handle like a car, it comes close. Katherine navigates, relaying information from my iPhone’s map and occasionally (not as occasionally as I’d like!) resetting the iPhone when it freaks out and forgets how to talk to the mobile network, thus losing map data. Nokia’s crap-tastic software has beaten us for now, preventing us from using Katherine’s talking GPS directions from her mobile phone. A little angst from my end with the odd wrong or missed turn requiring some stomach-twistingly tight manoeuvres, which I promise I will never be gotten-the-better-of again. Just a matter of looking at wrong turns as opportunities, even if for nothing more than manoeuvring practice!

So, we find ourselves at the start of our new lives — properly so now. We never guessed everything would go this smoothly (“everything is conspiring in our favour!” says Katherine), but here we are!

Firstly: Insurance is an absolute bastard when you’re different. This is, of course, no particular revelation, but I hadn’t realised the magnitude of the bastardness.We started with an article I found on Australian motorhomers travelling in Europe, which discussed just how tricky insurance is for us. It mentioned Downunder Insurance as one very expensive but available option, but left us with no other options. We were aware of the weird dealer ‘leaseback’ thing for buying in Europe, where the dealer registers and insures the van in their name, having leased the van back from the buyer, and then sub-leasing it back. Dodgy and leaves us vulnerable to dealer shenanigans.

I didn’t want to admit defeat there, so: Louise trawled websites of insurers with our situation in mind, and for the first pass, concluded that the original article was basically spot on, and that no one would be willing to help us aside from Downunder. The main problems were that most insurance companies only support actual use of a motorhome for about 90 days in a year (useless for ‘fulltimers’), and that UK residency is required.

The latter residency problem was a slightly vague limitation, so I dug a little deeper, assisted by advice from Steve, the dealer we bought our motorhome from, who suggested that getting British licences may help. Louise heard that registration with a UK doctor can make a big difference, something which didn’t turn out to lead anywhere, so I moved on.

I spent a few hours on the phone; It turned out we could get British licences, within 15 days or so. I spoke to one insurer, Coversure, who were happy to keep talking to me after I said I’d recently moved to the UK and was about to get a British licence. They wouldn’t give us more than 60 days of cover in a year, so it didn’t lead anywhere, but it was promising. If I could find an insurer who would similarly accept us and offer 365 days/year cover, we’d be set.

More time on the phone, with lots of no’s, and I was thrilled to find Safeguard insurance, who would cover us for 365 days, as long as we had Brit licences, and were enrolled to vote. I had a niggling feeling about the feasibility of the latter and so felt very smug when I discovered that, in fact, Australians, as Commonwealth citizens, are entitled to enrol to vote immediately upon settlement in the UK! We picked up the paperwork with no troubles, and found out that as long as we got licences and enrolled within 30 days, we could take out an insurance policy with Coversure immediately!

So, I called up and started the application process, which went smoothly until everything went downhill, and Coversure decided that no, actually, they wouldn’t help. It turns out the size of our motorhome is a mite bigger than they will happily insure us for. Wish they’d thought of that before we ran around town collecting forms.

At this point I was fairly desperate, so I asked a few more questions of Coversure, and found out that our recently-arrivedness was the problem – when they put ‘lived in UK 1 year’ into the computer, it said yes.

So, anyway, defeat snatched from the jaws of victory, I reluctantly called up Downunder insurance, and forked over £840 (about $1750 AUD) for a year of comprehensive insurance. If we don’t have some kind of major catastrophe that costs a few million to fix, I’ll be very upset.

Next year, I’ll call up Coversure. Till then, we’ll get Brit licences ASAP, so we can say we’ve held them for a full year next time.

I wish I had better news for fellow travellers, but it looks like the insurance world doesn’t like us very much!

The whole thing went infinitely more smoothly than we expected — it was the second motorhome we looked at, too. In Birmingham (specifically, Solihull), we stayed with Keith and Olga, my great aunt and uncle, and met Trevor and Jane, my…first cousin, once removed, according to Yahoo answers, and her husband. They are fulltime motorhomers and really took us under their wing.

They had some contacts who sold motorhomes, and got in touch with them for us. One contact, a motorhome dealer, Trevor and Jane had met in Spain and were quite friendly with, and also a motorhomer, couldn’t be contacted. I idly googled the name of his company ‘Motorhomes R Us’ and, surprisingly, somehow stumbled across a working phone number someone had left on a forum posting. He reported a couple of potentials in the yard, so Trevor and Jane generously drove us one and a half hours south to a little village called Chipping Sodbury.

The first motorhome we looked at, a ’94 Fiat Hymer, was fantastic — very mechanically sound, a robust and popular model, with a fixed bed at the back. Then, the second one we looked at, almost identical to the first, but a year earlier — a ’93 Fiat Hymer — and with the same robust mechanics, had a ‘dinette’/workstation at the back instead of the bed.

We spent about 20 minutes inside looking around; it quickly dawned on us that it ticked every one of the things on our wishlist, far above and beyond what we were expecting:

• Bathroom (toilet and shower)
• Diesel (2.5 Turbo Diesel engine — very solid and reliable)
• 3 burner gas stove
• Three-way fridge/freezer
• Sink
• Under 3.5 tons
• Left hand drive
• Gas heater (and AC)
• Bike rack on the back
• Big safe
• Two workspaces

The bed, a double, pulls down from above the cab — it can be left with bedding on it, and just pushes up out of the way during the day so the space is used efficiently. It’s got plenty of room to sit up in bed, unlike a lot of the models we looked at previously.

We took it for a test drive (something I’d been dreading and had been cultivating a good bunch of stomach butterflies over), me behind the wheel with Steve the dealer sitting beside me guiding patiently as I routinely drifted towards the wrong side of the road, took roundabouts about twice the speed I should’ve, and missed the entrance to the yard at the end, then having to go around the block again. Driving a decent sized van from the other side of the car wasn’t quite as hairy as I was expecting, though, so I’m not quite as nervous as I was.

Steve made us a great offer that included a year warranty, which floored us (if any, 3 months is usual), and also agreed to install an LPG gas tank for the stove/heating/fridge/hot water (better than detachable propane tanks, apparently), a 300W pure sine wave inverter, solid leisure battery and security locks on the doors. We decided against on oven/microwave, as we don’t really need either and the space is more valuable.

The ’93 and ’94 Hymer models are apparently particularly good quality — lesser quality models replaced them in ’95, with poorer construction and less durability, so we’re quite happy there. It’s a similar model to Trevor and Jane’s first motorhome too, which they were very fond of.

So, we got a motorhome that meets our needs perfectly, and from a dealer who we trust and have a personal connection with. No trawling eBay and driving all around the country to look at individual vehicles. We paid £14,000, with one or two hundred more to be paid for a couple of late additions.

Now we have to wait until the international bank transfer completes (we were hoping to pick it up tomorrow, but apparently will now have to wait until Monday). We can’t wait! More photos when we’re in. Then the home-making begins.

Note: This post is a work in progress# General notes

• Latest fuel figures: Petrol prices (around $US6/gallon), vs Diesel prices (around $US5/gallon)
  • Diesel is generally cheaper to run, as one tends to get further on the same volume
• EU laws: Can’t register a vehicle in your name unless you are a resident of the country of purchase. England is lenient; Holland & Germany – difficult to buy from a private seller.
  • Buy from dealer, keep rig in dealer’s name – insurance & buy-back easier.
  • Get official proof of ownership
  • “But it’s no longer possible for a non-EU citizen to register a motor vehicle in Germany. You can apply for export plates, which saves you the VAT and road tax, but the vehicle must then be sold outside the country or re-imported for buy-back or resale. Some dealers may be willing to handle the paperwork for this, but may charge a fee. “
• Traditionally, campervans have been cheaper in Amsterdam & Germany. However, with the pound in its current state, there’s little difference. Thus, given the prior point, it may be easiest to just buy in the UK (e.g. Southdowns)
• Buy-back easy, usually 50-70% return if vehicle brought back within a year in same general condition. (Year – too limiting for us)
• AA for insurance, and can help with registration
• Must have a bill of sale – describe vehicle, show VIN and license number and purchase price, signed by seller and dated
• Vehicle registration document from seller
• Find out where you can get base vehicle servicing done
• Spend at least an hour inside the van, checking the layout, make the beds and check for comfort
• Buying privately: Never pay cash
• Avoid ‘Leyland Daf’

Wishlist

Essential:

• Bathroom facilities for independence (including built-in toilet, preferably with waste access hatch accessible from outside)
• Diesel
• Built-in two-burner (at least) stove with detachable propane tank
• Fridge (gas)
• Sink with water supply, pump, drain
• Under 3.5 tons
• Left hand drive
• Everything on 12V
• Heating system that doesn’t require the engine to run
• Bike rack, or adequate facilities to install a bike rack later

Desirable:

• A safe (welded in)
• Oven + microwave
• Alarm system + engine immobiliser
• Sound system compatible with iPods, etc
• Two distinct workspaces (e.g. two tables/benches)
• Inverter

Dealer notes

BW Campers (Amsterdam)

BW Campers in Amsterdam were recommended in a number places, including this article (‘Dependable camper sales with buy-back and support while traveling‘ – unclear how independent this is), and the book Europe by Van and Motorhome, so they sounded like a safe option. However, a quick Google revealed that some customers have had very bad experiences with them that reveal some extraordinary dishonest practices. I have also been contacted personally by someone who’s been through hell with them (Sounds like we’ve dodged a bullet there). Avoid them.

• Vouches: Road trip Europe, Transitions Abroad?
• Warnings: Bad experiences…, A. (contacted privately) – Has many serious complaints

Southdown Motorhomes (UK)

• Vouches: ‘Bad experiences…’ site, A. (contacted privately) – Southdown were very helpful with some maintenance issues

Rutenkolk (Frankfurt, Germany)

Mentioned by an Aussie who spent six months travelling. Spent a long time exploring ways to purchase a motorhome, after 30-40 people contacted, settled on Rutenkolk. Were very helpful – e.g. offered their premises for storage at no charge. No buy-back, but can sell through their yard. “Experience with this company has been first class”. Responded quickly to requests and even called to Australia; perfect English. Operated over 25 years, “very customer focused”. Owner’s mother drive them to a department store to buy supplies, then washed newly bought bedding/towels for them!

Second hand motorhomes not their primary business.

Rutenkolk registered and insured the vehicle in their own name – a way to sidestep issues of registration/insurance for non-EU citizens. Probably involves a leaseback arrangement (they lease the motorhome, and sublease it back, so that they can demonstrate custody?)

Guy’s name is Gotz (pronounced ‘Gerts’)

One customer reports dishonesty about a vehicle’s age, and alleges deposit fraud

• Vouches: Wopdrn on Thorntree, Transitions Abroad?
• Warnings: al_stuart9 from Travellers Point

Durrwang GmbH + co (Dortmund, Germany)

• Vouch by Trevor, a family member: “Very good”, “dealt with them personally”

Campirama (Kortrick, Belgium)

• Vouch by Trevor, a family member: “Very good”

Spinney (UK)

• Vouch by Trevor, a family member: “honest and would not shaft you”, a friend works there

Others

• Warning about Brownhills Motorhomes

Things to consider in a campervan

• Preferably doesn’t look too much like a touring motor home full of expensive equipment as we don’t want to draw too much attention to thieves.
• Good diesel engine for reliability and long engine life.
• Less than 10 years old for the purpose of insurance and breakdown cover.
• For travelling in very cold regions:
  • Well insulated with no internal metal bodywork showing in living quarters and double glazed windows. We need the van to be as snug as possible.
  • All water tanks and pipes need to be internal where possible otherwise they would just freeze.
  • Diesel or gas powered blow heating to heat the van up; gas blow heating has less components, so less chance of going wrong; Diesel heating can run off van’s fuel
• For the ability to ‘freecamp’: Shower, toilet, sink and cooking facilities
• A permanent double bed
• Internal storage for clothing and other personal belongings.
• Three types of motorhomes: B-Class (panel van fitted out, also called day vans and camper vans); A-Class (coach form factor) and C-Class (chassis cab conversion with purpose built ‘caravan’ body attached)
• See if there’s a ‘try before you buy’ service – hire out for the weekend, etc.
• Insurance: Sureterm Direct?
• Windows are a good clue to quality manufacture. Simple, sliding windows are cheap–that’s that. Jalousie windows are better–that’s that (they can be partially opened when raining and they deter burglars). An exception, now, are the dual-pane windows, with jalousie portions at side and/or bottom, that greatly improve insulating characteristics.
• Size (does this apply to smaller campervans, or just class A’s?)
  • ‘Payload’
  • Mass In Running Order (MIRO)
  • Maximum Technically Permissible Laden Mass (MTPLM)
  • Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW)
  • Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR)
  • Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR)
  • Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR)
  • (some info here)

Things to check in a second-hand motorhome

• Overall condition: Chassis/underneath, engine, milage; “if dents, rust spots, broken lights, etc., have gone unrepaired, ask why”
• Seals and trims on outside – check for cracks, sun damage, knocks, scrapes
• Carpets, cupboards, handles and upholstery, be aware of any personalisation
• Check for damp (can be a problem for older motorhomes, can normally be cured; have distinctive smell; mildew in cupboards is a sign, but may be worth getting a ‘damp metre’ (what is this?)
• Floors can ‘delaminate’, giving a bouncy feeling, can be fixed
• Wear and tear should be in line with age
• Test that all gas/elecrical parts work
• Full-service history is good
• More modern vehicles even with a high milage are okay – designed to go well over 200,000 miles (VW T2 with 100,000 miles isn’t such a good idea though, for exmple – much older technology)
• Never buy a vehicle without a V5 log book; check the engine number and chassis number on the document match the vehicle
• Don’t take owner’s word that things work
• Check underside carefully, make sure water and fuel tanks are not leaking
• Check outer shell carefully, be sure any repairs are good
• Check inside shell carefully; any discolouration suggests a leak – make sure leak is fixed properly
• Check all fixtures and fittings; if there’s no gas bottle, get one and try cooking facilities and fridge
• Drive thoroughly – take up to cruising speed (60mph/100kph), take it down lanes, ot a supermarket, park it somewhere difficult, ensure you can drive it
  • “Look for smoothness, solidity and easy of control; should idle calmly and quietly, and not threaten to die every time you stop at a traffic light. It should start up without stumbling”
• Get a qualified third party to take a look (AA/RAC members?)
• Spend a few hours making sure it’s right – make beds, set up tables, move chairs around, etc
• Ask dealer to demonstrate everything
• Contact CRiS and report VIN number to find out about it
• You cannot check a refrigerator/freezer unless it’s been running at least 12 hours (24 is better).
• If the propane detector with auto stop isn’t working (few do), you won’t be able to get anything burning.
• Run the air conditioner at least 15 minutes.

Notes on models

(Taken straight from Camper Van Life; Not well researched yet)

Mercedes Sprinter

• Reliability, last a long time
• Reduced long term operating costs
• Hold price well
• Used throughout Europe, parts are common
• Slightly narrower than other panel vans
• Full engine access via bonnet
• CDi versions have improved engines, more electronics, dashboard gear shift (Pre-CDi have no electronics)
• Merc TL is mini-bus version of the Sprinter, good for panel van conversions
• Sprinter has 4 and 6 cylinder diesel and petrol engines, and electric hybrid
• http://www.campervanlife.com/vehicles/mercedes
• http://www.campervanlife.com/vehicles/mercedes-sprinter
• AKA VW LT post-’96

VW T4 and T5

• ‘Best small vans money can buy’
• Reliable, well-built
• Good fuel economy & performance

Fiat Ducato

• Reliable, well made, parts easily available

Ford Transit

• Reliable, mechanically excellent (basic on earlier versions)
• Known for rusting
• Mark 7 Transit got International Van Of The Year 2007

Resources

• http://www.gomotorhoming.co.uk/articles.htm
• http://goeurope.about.com/od/motorhomes/Motorhome_and_RV_Rental_in_Europe.htm
• http://www.transitionsabroad.com/publications/magazine/0411/motor_homing_in_europe.shtml
• http://www.bad-experiences-buying-selling-campers-in-amsterdam.com/
• http://goeurope.about.com/od/motorhomes/Motorhome_and_RV_Rental_in_Europe.htm
• http://www.articlesbase.com/holidays-articles/10-tips-for-buying-your-first-motorhome-558180.html
• http://www.caravanpriceguide.com/id1.html
• http://www.phrannie.org/buyRV.html
• http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/thread.jspa?threadID=1250751&start=0&tstart=1875
• http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/NR/rdonlyres/CCF9D25D-626D-469F-8FEB-857BE4C30631/0/TCCChoosingMotorCaravan.pdf
• http://www.magbaztravels.com/content/view/682/27/